ABRAHAM'S BOSOM, GEHENNA, AND TARTUROS: WHAT ARE THEY?
A CONTINUATION OF A BIBLICAL RESPONSE TO LESLIE TURVEY'S STUDY "LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN"
Mr. Turvey and others who are like him struggle with the term "Abraham's Bosom" as they deal with the story of Lazarus and the rich man. He writes:
The noun bosom does not connote heaven. Each of us has one. My favourite dictionary defines a bosom as the chest of a human being; the breast, conceived of as the center of youth and emotion; any warm, comfortable, familiar place (such as the bosom of the earth); intimate or confidential (as bosom buddies). It can also mean to take to the bosom, to embrace, or to cherish. Synonyms are heart and affection.
What he fails to understand or grasp is that there is a difference between Hebrew and English.
There is a term called "idiom". An idiom is defined as: 1. A mode of expression peculiar to a language; peculiarity of expression or phraseology. In this sense, it is used in the plural to denote forms of speech or phraseology, peculiar to a nation or language.
Abraham's bosom was a Hebrew idiom for a place where the souls of the righteous dead would reside as they awaited the resurrection.
Here are a few places where the word generally translated as "bosom" are translated as meaning something else:
1Ki 22:35 And the battle increased that day: and the king was stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians, and died at even: and the blood ran out of the wound into the midst of the chariot.
Now we know that a chariot doesn't have a bosom. Nor does a chariot possess the chest of a human being, nor does it have a breast. It doesn't have a center of youth or emotion. The chariot cannot be said to be a warm, comfortable, place, nor would a chariot be described as intimate or confidential. The chariot will not embrace a person, nor can it cherish a person. Yet literally translated, we see that the blood ran out of the wound of the king into the bosom of the chariot.
In Ezekiel 43:13,14, and 17 the same reasoning could be applied to the altar.
Eze 43:13 And these are
the measures of the altar after the cubits: The cubit is a cubit and a handbreadth;
even the bottom shall be a cubit, and the breadth
a cubit, and the border thereof by the edge thereof round about shall be a
span: and this shall be the higher place of the altar.
14 And from the bottom upon the ground even to
the lower settle shall be two cubits, and the breadth one cubit; and from
the lesser settle even to the greater settle shall be four cubits, and the
breadth one cubit.
Eze 43:17 And the settle shall be fourteen cubits long and fourteen broad
in the four squares thereof; and the border about it shall be half a cubit;
and the bottom thereof shall be a cubit about;
and his stairs shall look toward the east.
We know that the altar does not have a literal bosom, yet the same Hebrew word that is generally translated as "bosom" is used concerning the altar.
In the Septuagint, the word translated as "Bosom" in Luke 16 is used in Hoseah 8:1, and is translated as "midst".
Hos 8:1 He shall come into their midst as the land, as an eagle against the house of the Lord, because they have transgressed my covenant, and have sinned against my law.
The same word is used in Acts 27:39. In Acts 27, an account is given where Paul is in a ship as a prisoner, being transported to Italy. After a while, a great storm arose, and the ship that Paul was in was in danger of being wrecked. In verse 39, we see that the sailors spotted some land where there was a "creek with a shore" or a bay into which they could direct their ship for shelter from the storm. The word "creek" is the same Greek word as "bosom" in Luke 16 and elsewhere.
IT IS IMPORTANT HERE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ABRAHAM'S BOSOM WAS NOT THE SAME PLACE AS HEAVEN, AND HADES IS NOT THE SAME PLACE AS THE LAKE OF FIRE. MR. TURVEY AND OTHERS LIKE HIM CONFUSE THESE FACTS, WHICH COULD BE WHY THEY STRUGGLE WITH THE TRUTH AS JESUS TAUGHT IT.
The simple fact of the matter is that Abraham's bosom was a Hebrew idiom which spoke of a place of rest and repose that the righteous dead went, and the Greek conception of Hades has historically been a locality that received into itself all the dead, but it was divided into two regions - a place of torment, and the other a place of blessedness.
The expression "Abraham's Bosom" occurred in a few Jewish writings. One of these places is found in 4 Macc. 13:16, and yet another in the Talmudic tractate "Qiddushin, on Betrothal" 72b, 1st line (references given in "The Life And Times Of Jesus The Messiah", by Alfred Edersheim).
Josephus was a Jewish historian, whose history of the Jews was written no later than 93 A.D. and who later converted to the Christian faith. In addition to writing a concise history of the Jewish Nation, he also wrote a discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades. Remember that this is a Jew who is writing to the Greeks, and thus would discount the idea that the concept of Hades or Sheol as a place of custody of the souls of men after they die, if the Jewish belief denied that such a place existed.
In this discourse, Josephus mentions "Abraham's Bosom":
Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls, in which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one's behavior and manners.
2. In this region there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire, hereinto we suppose no one hath hitherto been cast; but it is prepared for a day afore-determined by God, in which one righteous sentence shall deservedly be passed upon all men; when the unjust, and those that have been disobedient to God, and have given honor to such idols as have been the vain operations of the hands of men as to God himself, shall be adjudged to this everlasting punishment, as having been the causes of defilement; while the just shall obtain an incorruptible and never-fading kingdom. These are now indeed confined in Hades, but not in the same place wherein the unjust are confined.
3. For there is one descent into this region, at whose gate we believe there stands an archangel with an host; which gate when those pass through that are conducted down by the angels appointed over souls, they do not go the same way; but the just are guided to the right hand, and are led with hymns, sung by the angels appointed over that place, unto a region of light, in which the just have dwelt from the beginning of the world; not constrained by necessity, but ever enjoying the prospect of the good things they see, and rejoice in the expectation of those new enjoyments which will be peculiar to every one of them, and esteeming those things beyond what we have here; with whom there is no place of toil, no burning heat, no piercing cold, nor are any briers there; but the countenance of the fathers and of the just, which they see, always smiles upon them, while they wait for that rest and eternal new life in heaven, which is to succeed this region. This place we call The Bosom of Abraham.
4. But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it.
So according to the Jewish Historian's understanding, Hades and Abraham's Bosom were temporary abodes of the souls of the dead, until they would be judged on the Day of Judgment. Now whether all that he said was true or not, isn't the issue. What is the issue is whether all that Jesus said was true or not. I personally believe that Jesus always told the Truth. The important thing to understand is that this view of Hades, the Lake of Fire and Abraham's Bosom was held by the Jewish people in the days concurrent with when Jesus walked this earth.
Mr. Turvey declares the following:
There are thirty-seven references to bosom in the bible, but only one takes place in heaven (John 1:18). So to say a person is in someone's bosom does not indicate they are anywhere except in an intimate relationship on the earth, unless that person is Christ.
I wonder why Mr. Turvey doesn't mention those places where "bosom" are interpreted as something other than the chest area, as I have pointed to in the passages above? It seems like this statement that he makes here is designed to lead the reader to think that there are no other meanings for bosom other than those given in his "favorite" dictionary. Is this designed to decieve his readers into believing the way that he does? It would seem that would be the case, but he could just be decieved himself, and could be simply parroting other teachers who use the same arguments against the existance of a literal Hell. He then goes on to say:
Why would a wretched beggar, Lazarus, be in Abraham's bosom, in an intimate relationship with Abraham? Paul wrote, "If you be Christ's then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29)." Through Christ a person becomes a child of Abraham and an heir according to a promise. Lazarus, through Jesus Christ, became a child of Abraham.
Mr. Turvey defeats his own argument by stating that to say a person is in someone's bosom does not indicate they are anywhere except in an intimate relationship on the earth, unless that person is Christ. We know that Lazarus died, and was caught up to Abraham's bosom, which is, by Mr. Turvey's definition a place of intimate relationship with Abraham. How can anyone be in an intimate relationship with anyone else if they are dead, and have no conscious awareness of their surroundings?
Gehenna
In his study, Mr Turvey states:
There are
eleven new testament references from the Greek word
Malachi 4:3 refers to the Day of the Lord, when His wrath will burn up the inhabitants of the earth. Malachi does not say they will be cast into the lake of fire. Mr. Turvey is reading more into the scripture than what it says, but most of those who wish to propagate false doctrine are taught to do just that. Malachi is only talking about the earth being burned. In 2 Peter 3:6, we read that just as the earth had been destroyed by a great flood in the days of Noah, so in the Day of the Judgment of God upon all humanity, it would be destroyed by fire. This is NOT the lake of fire. There are other areas in Biblical prophecy that tells us of the judgment of God by fire that would come upon men in the last days.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 16:8 And
the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto
him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which
hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
It is important for the Christian to understand that Jesus' reference to Gehenna as a place of torment, wasn't exclusively a teaching that Jesus taught. Teachers like Mr. Turvey generally lead their students to believe that when Jesus referred to Gehenna, he was speaking in parables, using a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem to illustrate his teaching, but this is simply not true. The teaching of a place of punishment called Gehenna was a common teaching among the Jewish people even prior to the birth of Jesus.
The following is a quotation from the Jerusalem Targum (Jewish commentary) on Genesis 3:24:
Two thousand years before the world was made, God created the Law and Gehenna, and the Garden of Eden. He made the Garden of Eden for the righteous, that they might eat of the fruits thereof, and delight themselves in them, because in this world they had kept the commandments of the law, but for the wicked He prepared Gehenna, which is like a sharp two-edged destroying sword. He put within it sparks of fire and burning cols, to punish the wicked in the world to come, because they had not observed the commandments of the law in this world, for the law is the tree of life.
The Jewish encyclopedia has this to say about "Gehenna" or Gehinnom:
"The rabbis were divided as to the place of this Gehinnom, some placing it in the heavens. The form of punishment inflicted on the wicked is not clearly defined in the Talmud but is principally associated with fire."
From the time immediately before Christ, two Rabbinic schools taught about the state of the dead.
The school of Shammai arranged all mankind into three classes: The perfectly righteous, who are "immediately written and sealed to eternal life;" The perfectly wicked, who are "immediately written and sealed to Gehenna"; and the intermediate class, "who go down to Gehinnom, and moan, and come up again." (Rosh haShanna 16b, and 17a).
Concerning the sinners of Israel and the Gentiles, the school of Hillel says
That they are tormented in Gehenna for twelve months, after which their bodies and souls are burnt up and scattered as dust under the feet of the righteous; but it significantly excepts from this number certain classes of transgressors "who go down to Gehinnom and are punished there to ages of ages".
From these two Rabinnical schools of thought we can see that even before Christ, the concept of Gehenna as a place of torment and punishment after the death of an individual was extant, these two schools represented the theological teaching in the time of Christ and his apostles. There were many other places in Rabinnical writings which are concurrent with the time of Jesus, where Gehenna is referred to as a place of punishment and torment for the souls of the dead.
As we can see from these few instances that there were definate differences of opinion as to what Gehenna was, or where it was, but the fact remains that the teaching of Gehenna was not unique to Jesus' ministry. Jesus' teachings were designed to clear up misconceptions people might have about a certain thing, as His discourse in Matthew 5 shows.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was
said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall
be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a
cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother,
Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool,
shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was
said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Now, understanding that the teaching of Gehenna was a prevalent teaching in Jesus' day, and that it was NOT exclusive to Jesus' ministry as the false teachers of today would try to make you believe, we can see that He was making a clear and concise point in Matthew 5 concerning the wicked heart of men and the Rigteous Judgment of God upon that wickedness, and plainly warning His listeners to do what they could to avoid that terrible place known as Gehenna.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right
eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable
for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body
should be cast into hell (Gehenna).
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for
it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that
thy whole body should be cast into hell (Gehenna).
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her
a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for
the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall
marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have
heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear
thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you,
Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it
is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more
than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for
a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him
have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn
not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and
hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good
to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute
you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh
his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just
and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the
publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not
even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
TARTAROS
By now it should be apparent to the reader that despite the wrestling with the scriptures that men like Mr. Turvey engage in to prove that Jesus was merely telling a fairy tale whenever He mentioned Hell or Gehenna, Jesus, Who is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, NEVER told a lie, nor did He ever teach a DOCTRINE in order to mislead people into believing a fairy tale.
According to Jesus' own Words, Hell and the torments that await those who reject Him are very real, and the Bible tells us that He demonstrated His Love for His Creation by humbling Himself, and taking upon Himself the form of a servant to take our sins upon Himself on the cross (Phillippians 2:7,8). He came to warn humanity to flee from the wrath of God, and the flames of Hell. No amount of scoffing or emotional reasoning will change that Truth. Before we conclude this study, I believe it is neccesary to look at one more place that is referred to as "Hell" in the New Testament. There is only one verse where this place is mentioned, and that is in 2 Peter 2:4, which says:
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
In classical Greek literature, Tarturos is mentioned in several places, and most generally it is used to denote a place where the wicked gods or angels of Greek mythology were cast into by Jupiter.
Peter used the term Tartaros, as it was a familiar term to the Greek speaking world, as a place where some angels who sinned were reserved unto judgment. Both Peter and Jude 1:6 mentions these angels, and refers to them being confined to chains of darkness until the Judgment day.
As to who these particular angels are, I have my own opinion, but this is not the place to discuss this. It should suffice to say that these angels are in a special holding place until they will stand before God in Judgment. The interesting thing is that contextually, both these passages seem to infer that false teachers and false prophets will also find their place in Tartaros.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets
also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who
privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought
them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of
truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise
of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation
slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell,
and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher
of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with
an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing,
vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds);
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve
the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Notice here that the unjust are reserved unto the day of Judgment in verse 9, and the angels are reseverd unto the day of judgment as well. I believe contextually, we see the false prophets and the false teachers who bring in damnable heresies and deny the Lord that bought them (for instance, by teaching that Jesus lied or purposely misled people when He taught about Hell, and warned people to flee from it). I believe that in this passage we are seeing that the false prophets and the false teachers are both condemned to that place referred to as Tartaros, where those angels who sinned against God are. When he says the Lord knows how to reserve the unjust unto the day of Judgment to be punished (NOT ANNIHILATED!), he continues and mentions SPECIFICALLY which ones will suffer that type of punishment:
2 Pet 2:10 But chiefly
them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.
Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing
accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak
evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their
own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it
pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves
with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling
unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed
children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way
of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice
forbade the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest:
to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through
the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped
from them who live in error.
This is exactly what we see happening with the false teachers who try to twist the Word of God to make it mean what they want it to mean. By appealing to the flesh, they whisper things like "Now would a loving God Really condemn a person to eternal torment?" They allure through the lusts of the flesh, and because of their many words, they get a lot of people to embrace their error. These false teachers who would decieve others have a place of darkness reserved for them forever. What a frightening realization that should be to all who seek to wrestle with the Words that Jesus Christ spoke. This doesn't only apply to the "there is no Hell and eternal torment" issue, but to all the Doctrine that Jesus taught.
2 Pet 2:19 While they promise them
liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man
is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the
knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein,
and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered
unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is
turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing
in the mire.
It would do well for all who teach the Word of God to heed this warning:
Jam 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters (Gr. teachers), knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
CONCLUSION
In his study, Mr. Turvey writes this:
Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonika, "If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him [a future event]. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep [dead]. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so [as a result] shall we ever be with the Lord (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17)"
Here we have the word of God that those who have died believing in Jesus Christ will be brought back to life at the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. Question: Have you seen Jesus returning to earth in his glory bringing tens of thousands of angels with him (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8; Revelation 19:14)?
Have you heard a powerful angelic trumpet blast, and seen graves burst open and your loved ones coming to life again? If you haven't then Jesus Christ's return is yet sometime in the future. The entire world will know when Jesus returns as he foretold in Matthew 24:27, "As the lightning comes out of the east and shines even to the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Not only that, his return will be heralded with the fanfare of a magnificent trumpet. "They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matthew 24:30-31)."
Because of Mr. Turvey's limited understanding of correct Biblical Doctrine, he makes a few very serious mistakes in his idea of what the Scripture teaches concerning the dead, the grave, and the coming of the Lord.
As we have seen in our previous studies, the grave which holds the dead bodies or the carcases of human beings whose earthly life has expired is NOT the same place as Sheol or Hades. In the Greek, this place is called "tophes" or "Mnemeion". Because he believes that Hades and the grave are synonomous with each other, he asks this question, naturally thinking that he is referring to Hades:
Have you heard a powerful angelic trumpet blast, and seen graves burst open and your loved ones coming to life again?
When the Jehovah's Witness and the Seventh Day Adventist begins to really comprehend that Tophes and Mnemeion are one place (the literal physical grave), and Hades is another, I believe that they will be on the right path to understanding the Truth that the Bible teaches concerning the death of the body and the resurrection.
I believe the Scripture clearly states that prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the souls (not the bodies) of those who had died went to Sheol, or Hades. Those who had spent thier lives in wickedness were in an area where they experienced torment, as in evidenced by Jesus' account of the rich man in Luke 16. The righteous dead were in a place of comfort and rest called Abraham's Bosom. At Jesus' death and resurrection, the souls of those who were in Abraham's Bosom now were priveleged to be in the Presence of God and His Angels, as evidenced by Jesus' Words to the repentant thief who hung on the cross beside Him:
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists like to move the comma in the above verse to "today", and altar the structure of the sentance a little, so it will read "Verily I say unto thee today, you shall be with me in paradise," but the only reason they do this is not based on grammatical rules, but because this verse seems to imply that the thief would be with Jesus in Paradise That Very Day that they died. This would fly in the face with their doctrine of soul sleep and annihilation of the soul.
Notice this account in Revelation concerning the righteous dead:
Rev 6:9 And when he
had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were
slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud
voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge
our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto
them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants
also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
John doesn't seem surprised that these souls were conscious and in the Presence of the Lord, and that they were crying out to the Lord, or that their questions were answered.
To clear up Mr. Turvey's obvious misunderstanding here we need to see what 1 Thessalonians is speaking of. In 1 Thessalonians, I believe the scripture is referring to the physical resurrection of the bodies of those who had died and who had been buried in the grave. Of that event we read more in 1 Corinthians 15:
1Co 15:51
Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be
changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet
shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put
on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal
shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that
is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
This chapter is a very important chapter in relation to what happens after we die. 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 both mention the sound of a trumpet, so it is a safe assumption that both are speaking of the same event. One more verse is important to consider here, and that is found in John 5:28, where Jesus teaches about what will happen some time in the future:
Joh 5:28 Marvel
not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves
shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done
good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
resurrection of damnation.
The word "graves" here is the Greek word Mnemeion, and Jesus is speaking of a time when all the bodies that are in the graves (NOT HADES) shall hear His Voice, and shall come forth. This is the same event that is being referred to in 1 Thessalonians 4:16:
1 Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall
rise first:
LAZARUS HAD BEEN IN THE GRAVE (mnemeion, NOT hades) FOR 4 DAYS (John 11:39). His body was already in a state of decay. But when he heard the voice of the Lord, he came forth!
Joh 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
When the Lord returns, the righteous dead that are in the graves (not Hades) shall hear His Voice, just like Lazarus did. Their souls will return to their bodies, and they shall COME FORTH just like Lazarus did. I can hear the objections from the ardent Jehovah's Witness and the Seventh Day Adventist right now who believe the soul and the body are the same, but that the soul does depart from the body upon death, and that it WILL return to the body at the resurrection, consider this gem of a verse from the Old Testament:
1Ki 17:21 And he stretched
himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD
my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came
into him again, and he revived.
23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into
the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son
liveth.
24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of
God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.
Just as 1 Corinthians 15 referred to the resurrected body of Jesus Christ, so it refers to the resurrection of the bodies of those who are in the grave. That physical resurrection will occur at His Second Coming, when the power of death (the physical expiration of all living things) will be totally destroyed (1 Cor 15:26), just as it was in Jesus' Christ's life.
Like Lazarus, they will no longer be in a state of decay. They will be transformed, in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye (1 Cor 15:52). The corruptible will have put on incorruption (1 Cor 15:53,54), the mortal will have put on immortality. There will no longer be any fear of death, because there will no longer be any death. This is called the first resurrection in Rev 20:6 (The person who believes in a pre-tribulation rapture should be able to see the error of their theory here. Just think it through, and you will be blessed!). In Rev. 20:6, we are told that the second death has no power over those who experience the first resurrection.
While they are with the Lord in the air, in That Day (it won't take Him 7 years. He spoke it all in existence in a day...why would it take seven years? More wrestling with the scripture that the "Pre-trib rapture" theorists are guilty of!).
Those who have lived for the Lord will rule and reign with Him in their incorruptible bodies, which will be similar to that of the Lord's resurrected body for a thousand years on this earth that has been purged by the Lord's Wrath
When He returns for the first resurrection, He will destroy the wicked, and all who opposed Him will taste of death. The ashes of their dead bodies will be trodden under foot by the Righteous (Malachi 4:3). This is the first death.
The resurrection of the wicked will also occur, but this will take place 1,000 years later, and it will be a resurrection to judgment (Rev 20:11-15), whereupon the devil, the false prophet, all who rejected Jesus, and Death and Hell (Hades) will be cast into the Lake of fire. Hades will no longer have a function as a place where the souls of the wicked were reserved for the still future Day of Judgment. They have now been judged, and their torment will continue throughout eternity.
Rev 14:9 And the third
angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast
and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out
without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented
with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence
of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they
have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever
receiveth the mark of his name.
Smoke is evidence that something is burning. In this case, we see that the smoke is evidence of their torment, and it ascends up forever and ever, and THEY HAVE NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...There is no point for anyone to argue with the Word of God.
The Seventh Day Adventist and the Jehovah's Witness who wrestles with the Righteous Judgment of the Almighty God really needs to consider these words:
Rev 22:18 For I testify
unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any
man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are
written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy
city, and from the things which are written in this book.
In Revelation 21, we see the creation of a new heaven and a new earth (vs1), and the city of God coming down to dwell on the earth (vs 2). Just as the Lord God had visited with Adam and Eve in the Garden in the Beginning, we see that He will dwell with His people at this Glorious time (vs 3). There will be no more tears, no more death, no more sorrow, no more pain, because all of the memories of the former life that would have anything to do with those emotions will have passed away (vs 4). We are told in verse 8 that the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death...
Then the Glorious unfolding of what this Wonderful Place will be like begins in verses 10-27. In the next chapter, the description of this Paradise continues, and then again, we are warned:
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
God doesn't want you to miss out on His Promise. He has a wonderful Place prepared for you. (John 14:1-3).
If you have been wrestling with the Scripture to explain away Hell, you need to repent and begin to speak the Truth.
Joh 15:1 I am the true
vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch
that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except
it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him,
the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered;
and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
I pray that this study has helped you and that you were blessed with it. if you have any questions or comments, feel free to e-mail me:
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